Cuenca es una ciudad con mucho encanto, que atrae a los extranjeros con su magia colonial, su vida cultural y su costo de vida accesible. Sin embargo, detrás de esta imagen se esconde una historia de advertencia, representada por el camino de Susan, un recordatorio contundente de los errores que pueden cometer quienes se aventuran en el mercado inmobiliario local sin la debida preparación y sin contar con una guía confiable.
El Encanto de Cuenca
Susan y su esposo llegaron en 2008, en medio de una crisis financiera mundial, buscando tanto una aventura como una inversión segura para obtener una visa ecuatoriana. Decidieron invertir en bienes raíces locales, una decisión que al principio parecía prometedora. Su compra, una propiedad supuestamente de 14 hectáreas con casa incluida, no solo era una inversión sino también un lugar que podían llamar hogar. Sin embargo, la realidad pronto se alejó de las expectativas.
"No teníamos Seguro Social, entonces para obtener la visa que queríamos, necesitábamos una visa de inversión", recuerda Susan. "En vez de tener un certificado de depósito en el banco, y claro, esto fue al final del desplome de la bolsa en los Estados Unidos, así que no queríamos meter la plata en un banco y sentíamos que la tierra era más segura, además de que igual necesitábamos un lugar donde vivir, así que empezamos a buscar una propiedad donde pudiéramos quedarnos."
Su optimismo se fue apagando cuando descubrieron grandes diferencias. La propiedad era más pequeña de lo que les habían dicho, cerca de 8 hectáreas, y habían pagado muchísimo más de la cuenta debido a los precios inflados que manejaban corredores sin escrúpulos.
Pagar Más de la Cuenta por una Propiedad
Una de las primeras lecciones que aprendió Susan fue sobre las grandes diferencias en la valoración de propiedades y las prácticas de fijación de precios. "Cuando compramos nuestra propiedad, nos dijeron que tenía unas 14 hectáreas, pero no teníamos cómo verificar eso sin un levantamiento topográfico. Solo años después, cuando pensamos en vender parte del terreno, nos enteramos de que el tamaño real era más cercano a 8 hectáreas."
Sus problemas se fueron complicando aún más por las prácticas engañosas en las escrituras. El precio que figuraba en la escritura era de $31.000, pero ellos habían pagado bastante más, y gran parte de esa plata fue a parar a los bolsillos de intermediarios deshonestos.
"Nosotros nunca llegamos siquiera a… si estábamos con los vendedores en distintas situaciones, ellos no hablaban inglés y nosotros no hablábamos español, y nadie nos tradujo nada", revela Susan. "En ese tiempo, ponían cualquier cosa en la escritura. Recuerdo que dije, '¿Por qué no ponen lo que pagamos?', pero me respondieron, 'Ah, aquí no hacemos eso.'"
Navegando las Prácticas Inmobiliarias
La experiencia de Susan resalta lo importante que es entender las prácticas del mercado inmobiliario local. Las tácticas engañosas como reportar precios de venta más bajos en las escrituras para evadir impuestos son muy comunes, y afectan gravemente la capacidad de los compradores para evaluar el valor real de las propiedades.
"Este problema se agravó porque la valoración en la escritura no reflejaba la realidad del mercado", explica Susan. "Cuando mandamos a avaluar la propiedad años después, el valor era diez veces el monto que figuraba en la escritura."
El Papel de los Asesores de Confianza
Contar con asesores confiables es fundamental para moverse en los mercados inmobiliarios extranjeros. Susan y su esposo confiaron en lo que creían eran corredores de buena reputación, solo para descubrir que esa confianza estaba mal depositada.
"Cuando nos mudamos acá, mi papá ya había fallecido, y luego mi mamá. Los dos estaban en sus noventa años, entonces cuando mi mamá falleció, yo sabía que iba a recibir algo de su herencia", comparte Susan. "Especialmente después del 2008, no quería confiar en los bienes raíces en los Estados Unidos. Pensé, OK, tengo algo de plata para invertir, es un país hermoso y consigo personas que me ayuden. Compramos la casa para vincularla a la visa."
Esta situación llevó a pérdidas económicas considerables y a largos procesos legales, dejando en evidencia la necesidad de hacer una investigación rigurosa al momento de elegir asesores que realmente velen por los intereses del cliente.
La Trampa Inmobiliaria
La historia de Susan deja al descubierto la dura realidad de las prácticas engañosas dentro del mercado inmobiliario local. Lo que comenzó como una aventura emocionante pronto se convirtió en frustración y dificultades económicas.
"De verdad queríamos comprar una casa en la ciudad", recuerda. "Pero el corredor nos dijo que los dueños no estaban listos para vender. Entonces compramos la casa de al lado. Al día siguiente, la casa que queríamos estaba en venta."
Esta táctica de cebo y cambio dejó a Susan y su esposo sintiéndose engañados. Los llevaron a comprar una propiedad menos deseable a un precio inflado, una jugada orquestada únicamente para beneficio del corredor.
Confiar en las Personas Equivocadas
A lo largo de toda esta situación, Susan y su esposo dependieron de la información que les daba su agente inmobiliario y su asesor legal, solo para descubrir una red de engaños.
"La agente tenía diferentes personas, incluyendo abogados, que me iban diciendo cosas", explica. Pero todos estaban metidos en lo mismo. El abogado incluso avaló acuerdos que eran completamente fraudulentos.
Estas traiciones dejaron a Susan cargando con un peso emocional y económico enorme, agravado por la comprensión de que sus inversiones estaban basadas en información falsificada.
Lecciones Aprendidas
El camino de Susan sirve como una historia de advertencia para los extranjeros que tienen puestos los ojos en el mercado inmobiliario de Cuenca. Sus experiencias resaltan la importancia de investigar bien, ser escéptico ante promesas exageradas y la necesidad fundamental de contar con asesores confiables y bilingües.
De cara al futuro, Susan aboga por la educación y la transparencia en el mundo legal y de inversiones en Ecuador. Le encantaría ver más seminarios que empoderen a los recién llegados con información práctica sobre bienes raíces, aspectos legales e integración a la comunidad.
Conclusión
Si bien Cuenca sigue siendo un destino atractivo para los extranjeros que buscan una nueva etapa en el exterior, la historia de Susan resuena como un recordatorio sobrio de los posibles retos que acechan dentro del sector inmobiliario local. Su camino refleja resiliencia y la búsqueda de un lugar seguro al que llamar hogar en medio de adversidades inesperadas.
Para quienes están pensando en mudarse a Cuenca, los aprendizajes de Susan son invaluables. Resaltan la importancia de estar alertas, de hacer una investigación rigurosa y de la necesidad de buscar apoyo confiable y bien informado al momento de navegar las complejidades de un mercado inmobiliario extranjero.
Aprendiendo de su experiencia, los futuros extranjeros pueden protegerse mejor y tomar decisiones más informadas.
Lecturas adicionales:
El Lado Oscuro de los Bienes Raíces en Cuenca - Una Historia de Advertencia con Susan (Transcripción)
Jason00:01
Cuenca está llena de extranjeros interesantes y sus historias. La invitada que les voy a presentar hoy ha pasado por muchísimas cosas desde que llegó a Cuenca. Voy a dejarle que les cuente los detalles en un momento, pero quiero dejar claro desde el principio que esta no es una historia que te deja contento. No es el típico video con lentes color de rosa que suele arrasar en YouTube. De hecho, me va a sorprender mucho si este video recibe algo de amor del algoritmo de YouTube, pero está bien.
De verdad creo que compartir esta historia de advertencia les va a ayudar a algunos de vos cuando decidan mudarse a Cuenca. Y con eso es suficiente. Pero para mí, en realidad va un poco más allá. Historias como esta son el motor de nuestro negocio inmobiliario para ser el cambio que queremos ver en el mercado.
Ahora, sueno un poco predicador, así que déjenme bajarme de ese pedestal y empezar nuestra charla con Susan.
Hola Susan, muchas gracias por estar acá hoy. Quizás podés empezar contándonos un poco sobre vos misma y qué fue lo que te trajo a Cuenca.
Susan01:19
Bueno, eso nos remonta al 2008, cuando mi esposo y yo estábamos un poco cansados de vivir donde vivíamos en los Estados Unidos. Era una islita con como 4.000 personas y ahí fue el desplome económico o el crash de la bolsa en el 2008. Creo que muchos gringos se mudaron o vinieron a Cuenca específicamente en esa época, así que nosotros simplemente queríamos salir de los Estados Unidos, supongo que para tener una aventura, pero también teníamos todo tipo de planes y proyectos, así que no era tanto para jubilarnos sino más bien para vivir la experiencia de estar en un país diferente.
Jason01:58
¿Y estás diciendo que llegaron casi como parte de una oleada de otros extranjeros? ¿Así fue como se sintieron, como si todos estuvieran llegando al mismo tiempo?
Susan02:06
Fue después, porque escuchamos, este, todo el mundo dice que antes del 2008 Cuenca cambió muchísimo entre, bueno, el 2008 y la siguiente década. O sea, todo se fue adaptando para acoger a todos esos gringos que llegaron. Entonces fue en retrospectiva que me di cuenta hablando con gringos de que muchos habían elegido, creo que también muchos canadienses, habían elegido salir de los Estados Unidos en ese momento porque perdieron sus ingresos de jubilación o simplemente no tenían suficiente plata para sentirse cómodos en su retiro. Así que me enteré después de que no era la única.
Jason02:40
¿Por qué decidiste invertir en propiedad al principio? ¿Qué te atrajo, era simplemente tener un terreno propio y disfrutar el tiempo acá, o había algo más del lado económico? ¿Cuáles fueron los principales motivos?
Susan02:54
Mi esposo no tenía, yo no tenía Seguro Social, así que para obtener la visa que queríamos, necesitábamos una visa de inversión. Entonces en vez de tener un certificado de depósito en el banco, y claro, esto fue al final del, bueno, del desplome de la bolsa en los Estados Unidos, así que no queríamos meter la plata en un banco y sentíamos que la tierra era más segura, además de que igual necesitábamos un lugar donde vivir, así que empezamos buscando una propiedad donde pudiéramos quedarnos, y después de eso simplemente era la sensación de que era como la plata. Era la sensación de que la plata estaba más segura si la tenías en tierra, porque es algo que, bueno, que se queda, no desaparece de un día para otro. No recuerdo el nombre de la cooperativa, pero había una donde teníamos amigos que perdieron mucha plata. Entonces con la tierra, simplemente se sentía más seguro. Pero eso.
Jason03:44
Eso es muy ecuatoriano. Por lo general tienen una desconfianza profunda hacia los bancos y prefieren poner su plata en la tierra. Así que vos como que adoptaste ese enfoque, qué bacán. Y entonces nos conocimos porque estabas buscando una posible propiedad para comprar en algún momento, lo que también significaba que estabas vendiendo esta propiedad. Entonces donde estamos ahora mismo, en realidad es la propiedad que cuando nos vimos por última vez estabas en proceso de vender. Pero parece que ya tenés un resultado con eso, ¿es correcto, o en qué punto está eso actualmente?
Susan04:16
Sí, así que pude vender esto. Era un terreno de 8 hectáreas, pero ni siquiera lo sabíamos hasta hace dos años cuando empezamos el proceso de decidir si dividir algunas de las hectáreas, porque cuando lo compramos no hubo ningún tipo de levantamiento topográfico. Así que no teníamos ni idea.
Jason04:34
¿Cuánta tierra compraste? ¿O cuánta tierra creías que estabas comprando?
Susan04:39
Creo que nos dijeron unas 14 hectáreas, pero, bueno, es difícil saberlo porque era boscoso y si lo caminabas, tenía algunas zonas muy empinadas, y además nosotros estábamos acostumbrados a los acres, así que era como, bueno, ya está. Pero sí, era casi la mitad de lo que nos dijeron cuando lo compramos. Igual, bueno, disfrutamos mucho vivir en el campo, así que.
Jason05:01
Claro, entonces creo que eso es un aprendizaje bastante importante solo en términos del levantamiento geográfico del terreno. Igual, obviamente todo esto es en retrospectiva y yo ciertamente no estoy acá para, bueno, ya tuviste algunos inconvenientes con la compra de la propiedad y la idea no es de ninguna manera burlarme de eso o tomarlo a la ligera. Pero si la gente puede aprender de eso, creo que tiene valor.
Susan05:28
Bueno, y cuando nos mudamos acá, mi papá había fallecido y luego mi mamá, los dos estaban en sus noventa años, entonces mi mamá falleció y yo sabía que iba a recibir algo de su herencia, y no quería, especialmente después del 2008, o sea, todo ha subido tanto, pero en ese momento no quería confiar en los bienes raíces en los Estados Unidos. Entonces pensé, OK, tengo algo de plata para invertir y es un país hermoso y consigo personas que me ayuden e invertiría en, en. Entonces compramos la casa para vincularla a la visa. Pero cuando tuvimos algo más de plata, pues, compramos una finca en Yanqui, compramos una casa antigua en el Tomebamba para remodelarla en algo como un club, como una galería, galería de arte, restaurante club. Compramos una casa cerca de ahí para tener un lugar donde quedarnos mientras hacíamos la remodelación. Y pensé que estaba siendo inteligente, bueno, haciendo eso.
Jason06:30
No, vos estabas distribuyendo el riesgo en varias cosas diferentes. Entonces, bueno, es difícil cuestionar el enfoque desde un nivel general. Me parece, y conozco un poco la historia y vamos a entrar en ella, pero me parece que simplemente había algunos detalles en el fondo que efectivamente se dejaron un poco en secreto o quizás simplemente no se entendió lo suficiente sobre la transacción.
Y creo que probablemente ahí es donde pueden haber surgido algunos de estos problemas, así que vamos a hablar sobre la compra de esta propiedad en particular, si te parece bien, porque es la que más conozco.
Y bueno, es una propiedad hermosa. Estuve esperando con ansias esta entrevista toda la semana solo para poder venir acá y verla de nuevo. Esta es obviamente el área de la biblioteca de la casa. Susan es muy leída, como podés ver, y me prometió que ha leído cada uno de los libros que están detrás de nosotros. Así que siéntanse libres de ponerla a prueba.
No, no, entonces la compra en sí, sé que no todo salió según lo planeado, pero bueno, si podés empezar desde el principio de la compra y quizás en el camino podemos hablar de algunos de los problemas que sí surgieron.
Susan07:36
Bueno, y esta propiedad comparada con un par de otras donde simplemente nos presentaron tan mal el valor, en esta estoy segura de que también éramos, éramos tan frescos venidos de los Estados Unidos que no teníamos ninguna perspectiva sobre los precios reales de los bienes raíces rurales, y entonces, ¿puedo dar como el precio que estaba en la escritura de la propiedad porque era como 31.000 dólares por este terreno de 8 hectáreas con casa? Y no sé qué habrán invertido los dueños, pero no tenían mucho invertido en la propiedad. Entonces, pero la habían puesto en arriendo con un corredor que probablemente al menos duplicó lo que ellos querían. Así que creo que así fue, así que no supimos nada de esto sino mucho tiempo después, porque, bueno, nos parecía razonable porque comparado con los Estados Unidos, estábamos obteniendo mucho terreno y una casa muy bonita que tenía como, creo que 20 años en ese momento, pero era, bueno, bellísimamente construida. Entonces estábamos muy contentos con eso, pero fue después que nos enteramos de que no solo habíamos pagado significativamente más de la cuenta, sino que muy probablemente los vendedores ni siquiera recibieron la mitad de lo que pagamos, porque eso se lo llevó el agente inmobiliario.
Jason08:58
Entonces, lo que parece que pasó es que el agente inmobiliario en particular efectivamente le dijo al dueño, al vendedor, oye, aunque la propiedad vale, digamos en la escritura 31.000 dólares, yo la voy a vender por, no sé, 60.000 dólares o algo así, pero esa información la mantengo separada del vendedor, así que el vendedor no sabe nada exactamente de este aumento de precio.
Susan09:21
Me di cuenta de que nosotros nunca llegamos siquiera a… si estábamos con los vendedores en distintas situaciones, ellos no hablaban inglés y nosotros no hablábamos español, y nadie nos tradujo nada. Y entonces, y en ese tiempo, creo que ya no lo hacen tanto, pero en ese tiempo ponían cualquier cosa en la escritura, así que recuerdo que dije, "Bueno, ¿por qué no ponen lo que pagamos?" pero me respondieron, "Ah, aquí no hacemos eso." Entonces cuando vas a vender, y yo fui bastante afortunada con esta, pero bueno, tendrías que pagar impuesto sobre el valor.
Jason09:51
El argumento es la plusvalía, así que ponían el precio bajo para que pareciera que no hay plusvalía, lo que significa que el vendedor no tiene que pagar el impuesto a la plusvalía, pero eso solo traslada esa plusvalía a la siguiente persona.
Susan10:05
Bueno, y entonces yo tenía una visa de dependiente con mi esposo vinculada a la propiedad, que en ese tiempo era como, no sé, casi 25.000 dólares, así que era bastante más barato, pero yo quería, él empezó a enfermarse después y me di cuenta de que estaría muy bien si tuviera mi visa por separado, pero no había suficiente valor en la escritura con 31.000 dólares aunque la casa valía, bueno, bastante más que eso. No van a cambiar eso y mandé a hacer un avalúo y lo avaluaron en como 10 veces lo que pagamos en el avalúo. Pero así y todo, no se guían por eso, no se guían por lo que vos pagaste porque parece que pagaste lo que dice en la escritura. Entonces fue darme cuenta de que, bueno, esto es así. No sabés, no sabés si no tenés a alguien realmente confiable que te ayude en este proceso.
Jason10:52
Y parece que te diste cuenta de esto mucho tiempo después. ¿Cuánto tiempo después de la compra?
Susan10:59
Oh, bueno, quizás, quizás fue hace unos cinco años, porque recuerdo que la gente seguía diciendo, bueno, si necesitás algo de plata, ¿por qué no dividís un poco? y recuerdo que decía, creo que es más complicado que eso, pero, bueno, haciendo el levantamiento topográfico, así que fue bastante, bueno, solo en los últimos años, porque fue cuando estábamos tratando de dividirlo y la gente decía, oh, esto es lo que vale, y como insinuando que valía más o menos lo que pagamos hace más de 10 años.
Jason11:30
¿Alguna vez consideraste, dado que claramente te llevaste la peor parte del trato, tomar acciones legales contra las personas involucradas en esa transacción?
Susan11:41
A ver, en este caso, las personas involucradas eran… uno de ellos ya tenía acciones legales en su contra porque estaba haciendo visas incorrectas, estaba tramitando visas de trabajo a granel y el gobierno fue tras él. Así que era el abogado principal. Ya tenía suficientes problemas. Y luego nos enteramos de que el agente inmobiliario no tenía licencia, así que no podés realmente ir tras alguien. O sea, no es que. Sí, así que no había. Y luego con el tiempo sí tuve experiencia con abogados, y luego me enteré de que eso no funcionó. No es como acá así que, bueno, no, vamos a ver.
Jason12:20
No quiero que esto se convierta en algo legal, pero según lo que entiendo, si tenés 5 años después del evento y podés probarlo, potencialmente podrías poner a ese agente inmobiliario en la cárcel. Obviamente eso es un proceso enorme, bueno, hay mucha negatividad y muchos problemas en ese camino también.
Susan12:39
Sí, bueno, y nos dijeron que probablemente no podríamos. Es muy difícil de probar porque son muy hábiles cubriendo sus rastros, y luego me di cuenta cuando habíamos comprado otra propiedad, me llamaron al notario dos veces a firmar dos escrituras diferentes y nadie me explicó de qué se trataba eso. Y todavía he querido rastrear a las personas, pero puede que no, eran mayores, no sé si siguen vivos, para ver si siquiera recibieron la mitad de lo que pagamos, porque esta era una propiedad en la ciudad a orillas del Tomebamba. Y entonces, claro, en ese momento no lo sabía, pero años después cuando estaba pensando, Dios mío, como que probablemente también pagamos el doble por eso, pero tenía curiosidad de qué recibieron esas personas y por qué firmé 2 escrituras, pero la mayoría de los abogados y o corredores involucrados, son muy cuidadosos de no mandar correos o mensajes, asegurándose de no dejar rastro que permita decir, "Hey, vos me dijiste esto." Así que más o menos sentí que cualquier.
Jason13:34
En algún momento durante la transacción, ¿viste algún tipo de señal de alerta? ¿Tuviste alguna corazonada?
Susan13:40
Simplemente éramos, mi esposo era tan confiado como yo. Confiamos en la gente. Confiamos en la gente. Así que no.
Jason13:47
Creo que eso es una cualidad fantástica, de verdad.
Susan13:49
Bueno, pero entiendo, creo que ahora mucha gente que realmente no confía en los demás puede ser que algunos de ellos sea porque ellos mismos no son de fiar, como que simplemente no van a, bueno, necesitan todo por escrito. O sea, una vez intenté pedirle prestados un par de cientos de dólares a alguien y querían, ¿cómo se llama eso?, como dejar mi carro en garantía, ya sabés, firmarlo. Sí, o sea, me quedé pensando, "Dios mío." Como que realmente han tenido una mala experiencia. Así que al invertir en tierra, definitivamente nos quedamos sin plata en efectivo porque teníamos tierra, pero no teníamos ingresos, y lo que esperábamos generar como ingreso, éramos muy ingenuos porque compramos la finca en Yanqui porque casi no había comida orgánica, no había kale cuando recién llegamos acá. Pero no podés ganar plata con una finca porque los productos son tan baratos y estás pagando tanto a los, los trabajadores y todo eso, así que eso fue, eso fue simplemente ingenuidad, y luego vendiendo eso y luego las otras iniciativas que intentamos, simplemente no era real ver lo difícil que es, y han hecho una encuesta donde tienen clasificado a Ecuador en cuanto a actividad económica y es muy bajo en términos de, por los impuestos, por los cambios de leyes, por lo mucho que tenés que pagar si contratas a alguien y luego lo despedís, incluso si te ha estado robando. Así que hay muchos factores que nosotros.
Jason15:07
Muchos extranjeros que ponen negocios acá se tropiezan con las leyes laborales. Creo que eso es importante.
Susan15:09
Sí, así que éramos ingenuos en todo eso, ya sabés. Solo que y eso era en realidad lo que queríamos hacer y uno de estos edificios iba a tener como un área de club, música en vivo. Queríamos tener muchos seminarios ahí y simplemente tener diferentes abogados y gente de bienes raíces y empresarios y decir, esto es lo que necesitás saber. Si todavía querés hacerlo, está bien, pero entendiendo que no, el agente inmobiliario no te va a decir si no tenés acceso a tu propiedad. No te lo van a decir, y el abogado no te va a hablar de los posibles problemas necesariamente, tenés que saber cuáles son esos problemas y preguntarles específicamente. Entonces es lo contrario de los Estados Unidos donde el trabajo del abogado es decirte lo que vos no pensaste. Así que íbamos a traer expositores para que pudiéramos ayudar a otras personas a no pasar por lo que nosotros pasamos, porque veíamos que la mayoría de los gringos están bien, pero si llegan con plata, si llegan queriendo invertir, queriendo iniciar un negocio o queriendo comprar tierra, entonces las posibilidades de que se metan en problemas y pierdan plata son muy altas.
Jason16:18
Estoy de acuerdo, y por eso estamos haciendo este video, que es efectivamente una historia de advertencia, digámoslo así. Cosas que, bueno, realmente hay que tener en cuenta. Espero que cuando estés pasando especialmente por una transacción inmobiliaria, que es la que más conozco, pero claro, cualquier transacción acá requiere el mismo tipo de investigación rigurosa también.
Jason
¿Qué es eso?
Susan17:01
Podría ser un burro. Las vacas también hacen ruidos muy raros, así que es algún, sí, es tranquilo acá, salvo por los ruidos, mirando eso...
Jason17:09
Pero me gusta. Es lo que es. Estamos en el campo y tenemos los sonidos del campo. Aunque me encantan los sonidos de los pájaros.
Susan17:14
Lo sé, lo sé. Me encanta estar acá.
Jason17:17
Entonces, hemos tenido un cambio rápido de escena y mencionaste algo.
Susan17:22
¿Está grabando de nuevo?
Jason17:23
Sí, está grabando de nuevo. Esta vez me acordé. OK, hablamos de esto antes y quiero retomar ese tema con el agente inmobiliario. El agente inmobiliario claramente te estaba vendiendo a un precio inflado y al vendedor le estaba diciendo que era un precio más bajo. Eso es terrible, obviamente, pero también me estabas contando que durante toda la transacción, había muchas otras cosas que notaste que simplemente no estaban bien. Ya sea que las notaste en el momento o que las descubriste
Susan 18:02
I don't know because it was years later because we had bought, you know, it was mostly when we were dealing, when we did a remodel in town and when we had bought another building in town that we, we, we really wanted to buy this one house in town that was really nice and the, the, we had been told it was going to appreciate that it was under, you know, really good location it was an old building so we thought we could always sell it to someone that wanted to remodel or put something there. So, we were just, we were told it's worth so much. But oh, the owners, they weren't ready to sell it. But the house next door was for sale. And we didn't really want the house next door, but we thought, well, OK, we can't get that house because they don't want to buy it. So, because we were trying to get close to this commercial building that we were remodeling, we wanted to have a place close by so we could be there. And so, we bought the house next door and the next day the one we wanted was for sale. So, she, you know, the realtor had just told them like you know, and then and then we made it.
Jason 19:07
Was this the same realtor?
Susan 19:11
Yeah. And we made offers. We kept making what I thought were really reasonable offers, but it was like, no, they won't budge.
Jason 19:18
They weren't moving at all.
Susan 19:19
And then I realized later that wasn't them. I mean, they had the house, they built the house, they had been there forever. So, they had, you know, very and it was a very old home and so they hadn't, you know, put much into it for years. And they would have been thrilled with a third of what we paid and who knows what they got. So, it was for whatever reason that we were told, no, they won't budge and of course, then we immediately tried to sell the one next door, and we lost money on that and then we ended up making payments on the one we did want. We were just really, we were just, so we just should not have done that but I guess I believed that it was an investment because I was being told, don't worry, this is how much it is a meter you can turn around and sell this so. I was thinking, oh, OK, again, my thinking that land was safer than the banks and if I just put it there then I could turn around and sell it in a few years. So, it was, but it was all wrong.
Jason 20:20
Sure so. But it sounds like the main source of information that you're relying on was just directly through the one agent. Is that true?
Susan 20:27
And, and you know, she always had different agents with her who would then tell me things, and then she had attorneys that would tell me things, and then so.
Jason 20:37
It sounds like the attorney was actually integral to a lot of this. Would that be correct?
Susan 20:42
Yeah, she may have, yeah, I don't know if she did change you're right. Yeah, I think so. I think so. We were just. Oh, goodness yeah, we learned the hard way.
Jason 20:52
You absolutely learned the hard way and I appreciate, you know, you sharing your story. I do think it is very valuable. The other question I had was the real estate agents themselves. How did you find this particular agent? Were they recommended by a friend or do they just have a listing and you're acquired on that so, you know, how did you originally get in touch?
Susan 21:11
Well, back in 2008 right there, there was only one that I remember that had a really good website, lots of listings, and spoke perfect English. And so, it was just, oh, you know, we'd just go with that person and because of, yeah, the English and yeah, it was pretty...
Jason 21:33
There's an assumption there that they're professional because they have a website.
Susan 21:35
And the listings, it was much easier than looking at some of the other, other, you know, websites and stuff so yeah, we just fell right into that hole.
Jason 21:46
And so obviously this is a terrible thing to go through. I personally am quite impressed that you've effectively just rolled with the punches and kept a positive attitude. But like behind the scenes, how upset I guess, were you? What sort of emotional disarray did this cause when you realize that you're potentially overpaid and some of the downstream implications of that?
Susan 22:10
It took a while because then I thought, well, we can sell this piece because we had invested in real estate. So, then it was each time I went to sell something, I ended up finding out how much I had overpaid and where you sign everything and then you're supposed to be paid a certain amount. And I guess I was foolish there too but I had accepted a trade for that corner house that I'd overpaid for. I had accepted some cash and trade of a piece of land in Challuabamba. And so, I went out there with a friend that did real estate and with the real estate agent and with an attorney and then the other real estate different people to look at this piece of land and they all just confirmed, yes, it was worth, you know, a hundred and thirty thousand not to worry.
And then I had an attorney helping me and I was going to, I had to go back to the States for some health issues with my husband. So, I left a power of attorney with the attorney who they all knew the property was not worth more than like $5000. So, it was significant and we found the record later that the buyer had paid like someone had paid $5000 before then someone had paid 10 and someone had paid 5, so the history of that land was because that when we finally had the Linnea Fabrica, I guess it was then it showed that it wasn't on a hill, but it was very unstable. It was saying you could put a fence on it and maybe a dog house, but that was it. You could not build anything on it. But even the attorney had signed off when I was in the States before getting the Linnea Fabrica. So, I realized all of that. So, I had no idea. So, we did, we filed a lawsuit, but we filed a lawsuit through the people we thought we trusted.
Jason 24:03
Him.
Susan 24:04
Yeah, and so that.
Jason 24:06
Didn't go anywhere.
Susan 24:07
Yeah so he never served this so, so that attorney hired a different attorney too, and but then that attorney never served the guy that owed me money because he was waiting for him. Because he actually went and paid someone off in the municipality to change the numbers on the Linnea Fabrica. So, we finally, when we got the papers and realized we had no lawsuit because now that was our basically the evidence for the lawsuit was that right there said that it wasn't worth that so then how could they deny us that? You know we were cracked.
Jason 24:40
It gets a lot more complicated once you've got that evidence that effectively, you know, says the opposite of what you're trying to say.
Susan 24:47
And that's what's sad in this country, I think as gringos realizing that these people, whether it's the police or the government, all these people that are finding out there's so much corruption because they're not, they're underpaid or at least a lot of these people in their minds, they're struggling. And so, then if someone says, like, instead of this guy paying me back what he owed me, he could just pay, you know, a few thousand or even ten thousand to somebody to change a document and that would… And the same with the attorney. I know the attorney got paid off and the other attorney got paid off and the realtor got paid off so we were just part of all these people that just saw us as, you know, ducks. Yes, because, and I understand, I mean, now I understand, I understand the culture and I understand how they see, you know, how they see gringos. And they're not bad people, but they will take advantage when they see money there and I think they're kind of thinking, well, they won't even miss it. I think part of it is that because we definitely saw that when we did a remodel too, there was a lot of money flowing out.
Jason 25:51
So, they just think gringo equals money.
Susan 25:54
I've had a lot of Gringo's tell me that and ones who are really on tight budgets, but they'll say they have a, they'll always send an Ecuadorian to get stuff. You know the price of whatever they need because they know that it's going to go up if they see a gringo.
Jason 26:06
Sure, and you're talking before about the house renovation remodeling what happened there? It sounds like you faced some similar issues in terms of overpaying.
Susan 26:15
We were introduced to a well-known architect who had studied in the States. He had perfect English and my husband really connected with him. He was very, very good at what he did and his drawings were great. But as soon as he started working for us, he got a brand-new truck and we didn't have a way… we would have needed to have had a separate project manager, but who that would be I mean would almost.
Jason 26:40
Who do you trust to do that?
Susan 26:41
It would have to be a gringo from the states that you paid to actually. But then he wouldn't know the… he would have to figure out what everything costs because you have no idea what is really being paid and again, we always kind of think things are so much more reasonable that we can't say, oh, that's too much for wood or too much for bricks or too much for labor. But then we did have some issues with the architect after a couple of years and I can't even remember the basis of that. So, we let him go and signed all kinds of papers so that he wouldn't sue us because they could do that because we didn't finish with him and that we wouldn't sue him. And, then we had a, what do you call it, a structural engineer come in and check the building and we had paid for a structural engineer under this architect. And this guy said it was a commercial building. So, it had balconies and all these things and the beams were all just none of them were structural none of them were supporting the balconies. And so, we, the whole thing, we would tear out a whole floor. We had to tear out all this work and kind of start over on a great deal of it.
Jason 27:43
So, an obvious question? How did you know you could trust that second structural engineer?
Susan 27:47
Well, we did see he showed us where that the beams weren't connected so then we just paid him a lot and then we hired someone that was not, we had to hire an architect because by law, if you're doing a building in the city so, but that architect, we actually didn't, he was just on there so that we could legally proceed because we hired a maestro that had helped us a lot in the past that we did trust a lot and who had worked in New York and his standards were very high and but even that, that was scary because I don't think because there's, there are so many laws like with paying. What do you know that if he was paying the employees, right, because he had his own employees? So, there was a lot of it, it was very stressful and, and, there were so many things that could go wrong so I was very glad.
Jason 28:33
We’re being harassed by dogs, it’s ok though. But yeah, so obviously the structural beam, that's a huge red flag, huge issue. Obviously, you know, that's terrible. Were there any other little red flags or big red flags along the way that you saw?
Susan 28:47
Just we were putting like, we got an estimate from.
Jason 28:50
They’re gold-plating stuff.
Susan 28:51
By the electrical engineer, we got an estimate and then we had shown it to someone else and they said they did the entire one of the hospitals in town for that amount, you know, and so it's like you're paying way over. So, we were trying to get, you know, and I forget how we dealt with that, but we again, we just you know, I've had problems in the States with a similar thing where it's just that person that was the project manager worked for the builder. And so, no one was really looking out for me.
Jason 29:19
There’s no real impartial person checking.
Susan 29:21
And you would really need that and then I don't know what you'd have to pay. That's the thing if you pay an attorney, or you pay a realtor, or you pay the project manager, someone else could pay them more to get them to not.
Jason 29:32
Knowing who to trust is incredibly difficult, especially as a new expat coming in off the boat. We're seeing stories like, you know, similar stories to yours, especially when it comes to overpaying. Overpaying for property - really using that naivety of gringos because they don't know the local prices. You're not going to know the local prices when you've just arrived here. And unfortunately, there's no MLS or something like that. That you can easily just pull up a bunch of comparison sales that have happened. So, you either need to do a lot of that research yourself and what I mean by yourself, especially if we're talking about land, that literally means going out there yourself, seeing the deeds, seeing the geographical studies, all that. So that is a huge learning curve for anybody wanting to do that themselves. Obviously, the opposite or the other approach is to have, you know, a trustworthy real estate agent to do that but having that trustworthy real estate agent, that's just really tough. So obviously, you know, look, we are one of those options, but if I'm in your shoes as an expat trying to come here, I don't know where to start.
Susan 30:38
Right, well, and I had, I had someone tell me that because we were looking before we bought the property that we did when we first came, we looked at all kinds of property, but we were told by someone like, hey, people, just stick a price on it so it's not like in the states where you find out comparable and then you might price yours a little high, but still you're always in the ballpark. So, we were told like someone will just put, you know, 200,000 thousand on something maybe worth fifty thousand like they just do it and.
Jason 31:05
Especially when it comes to land, like a lot of people, they don't, as we're talking about before, there is this natural incentive amongst Ecuadorians because they just trust the banks to put their money in the land. And because they do that, they're happy just sitting on the land. The property taxes are next to nothing here, so they can just sit on the land year after year after year and if a good offer comes along, maybe they will consider it. And that's really what happens. You see a lot of these for sale signs, especially in the countryside. Those guys don't most of the time, they really do not care about selling. That's my experience.
Susan 31:39
We did make an offer on a property before we found this one and it was in Tarqui. But then it was just a few days later it was like, no, they changed their mind. So, it was like, yeah, just like you're saying, they don't even know.
Jason 31:51
It's also more difficult to negotiate with someone out in the countryside, like I'm generalizing here, but they live different lives and they do business in a different way and so you as an expat or gringo from the US or wherever you're from, you have to come in here and you have to learn how to negotiate with those people as well. Even if you know what the market price is, it doesn't mean that you're going to get that market price because you're coming in and saying that's the market price.
There are a lot of layers here when it comes to negotiation and just dealing with a landowner and getting them to sell. In my experience, that's actually really quite tough, very opposite like if, if someone in the States, they want to sell, they mean it, that they want to sell. Let's go do business, you know, we can sell. Yeah, sometimes you need to like sort of wine and dine them and it just seems a little bit backward.
Susan 32:45
Yeah, and some people are living on land that they don't have deeds for, and that's what.
Jason 32:49
Especially out in the country that that's a big thing so any, any land that we sell, we have to be very careful that we're checking the deeds and actually belongs to that person and they have you know, the right to sell that there's no lien so there is quite a bit of due diligence that you do need to do.
Susan 33:02
And boundaries and I think now they are putting everything on the… is it the GPS like they're?
Jason 33:07
They are getting better at it, but still, you know, like the deeds can be wrong all the time, as you've discovered.
Susan 33:13
Yeah so, so they are trying to at least that because there was still, I guess, a dispute at the end of this property on one of the lines, I'm being told by the buyer that the line is incorrect, but we gave him, he had the copy of the survey and everything so I'm not, I don't even know what he's saying but when we put the fence in a few quite a few years ago, the owner on the other side came over and said, no, the Ambrose, this guy that had the property, he came in on my line and it's wrong and he stole some of my lands and so we just talked to him and said, well, that's what the difference so we went right in the middle and put a fence Benson and it matches up pretty well with the corners. But still, I mean, nobody had a survey so I don't even know now. I'm being told that somehow, we have the wrong line.
Jason 33:59
So even with this sale that you're going through now, you're starting to experience not the same issues, but different types of, of potential issues because and, you know, just from an outsider, a lot of it comes down to expectations and that cross expectations, especially when we have the language barrier.
Susan 34:17
Yeah, and that's a big one because in this case, I'm dealing with someone who speaks some English. And so, we were having conversations and I was explaining all these things to him because there's a lot of issues in the country with the water. And you have to, if the water is coming through your field, you can use that water, but then you have to share it with other people you can't block it. And we did have problems with that where our water was blocked. And I was explaining all this and then later I was told that I agreed to fix all of it. And I actually think a lot of that was just translation issues that as I was being friendly to explain what needed to be done, there was an assumption that I was offering.
Jason 34:59
That you have agreed to something as opposed to just.
Susan 35:01
Yes and so I realized that can be very dangerous if you are dealing with any kind of sale if someone says they speak or if you think you speak Spanish and you're still learning or if the other person speaks English and they seem like they do, but then you find out oh, wait a minute, they've completely reversed what I said. So that's enough. That's why you need a translator for sure.
Jason 35:45
Looking back, how would obviously a translator is one option and I'm assuming that's one that you would potentially, you know, spring for if you had the time over but are there any other suggestions as to if you were doing this again, how would you do it a little bit differently?
Susan 36:00
Oh, I just, I do always learn the hard way. But you know, I wouldn't have bought the buildings that I bought as an investment. I wouldn't have done that because I did not have the understanding of any of this and to be, to really know that they were a good investment, I'm not sure what I would buy instead. I still, you know, I know the banks do really well here with the interest and stuff, but so yeah, I just would not have been so trusting and I wouldn't have invested like I did in the land but for the house that we lived and we were very happy, you know, to be here, even though we did overpay.
Jason 36:39
It's a beautiful spot; you can't argue with the result there.
Susan 36:41
And then the sale, I was only sorry that I didn't have someone with me each time that I was talking to the buyer that even though he seemed to understand, we felt like we were communicating. There needed to be someone there.
Jason 36:57
What I'm seeing is just like a paper trail throughout this transaction. So, like you know when there are like what is agreed, what is not agreed?
Susan 37:05
But then you'd want that translator to see.
Jason 37:07
You’d want the translator, but at least on paper, you've got some chance of having a go at, you know, Google Translate or whatever the case may be. But also, just, you know, the promissory note side of things. So, it sounds like at the moment with this sale, you've gone straight towards the final deed.
Susan 37:22
Right, and he wanted to do that so the buyer was just wanting to like with.
Jason 37:26
But it sounds like there's a lot of these middle issues around payment and everything like that and that's really the main purpose of some sort of like a promissory note, to protect the deal. This is everything that we've agreed to before we get to that point of signing the deed. So obviously, what's done is done. And this is for your benefit moving forward if you are in a similar situation, then don't just feel like you need to jump straight to it. Indeed, there are other documents.
Susan 37:54
And even at the notary, I mean the notary, it was an office that had been there we used it back like years ago. But she said that because my visa was attached to the property they couldn't register it. So, then they almost stopped as we were in the process of signing the papers. Almost stopped. But you can't. So, if you went to the notary next door, they wouldn't say that so even the notary with years of experience of doing this very thing, there was confusion as to whether if you had an investment visa tied to the land, if it could be sold or if you had to remove.
Jason 38:27
So, there is no centralization of data here like just. So, if you're expecting a process just to communicate and talk to each other, it doesn't. It's very manual. It is very isolated in silos, especially when we're talking about the closing process for properties.
We are going to do a video on that in a little bit so stay tuned for that but just I want to change tact a tiny bit now and I want to talk about one of the other investments that you made. I'm just interested how that is going. I believe it was a gold mining company?
Susan 39:00
Yeah, and, and the main thing I know the people involved, they have very good intentions, but like with the Chinese, they can come in and do like this massive like strip type mining. But these guys were going to do alluvial mining where it doesn't cause damage and they would go into these pretty deep into the jungle and they put in airstrips and they bring supplies for the people there. And so, they were trying to, you know, be extremely environmentally conscious. They were doing the mining in the stream and they were just going to do a small mining company for a group of people that invested so that they could just get the gold from the mines basically. They wouldn't even be getting a money payment, but they could always sell the gold. And they were working with the people in the jungles because I know there's a lot of… they kind of are very controlling of that. But it was the government that was giving all these restrictions and regulations and saying no, no, no, you're too small and inconsequential, so we don't want to deal with you. They just didn't, so then those guys packed up and moved to I forget where they are.
Jason 40:04
There was an investment that had these plans and it sounds like it got to like stage one of four, or I don't know.
Susan 40:09
Yeah, they had different things they kept, you know, they bought all this equipment and the only silver lining was that they did meet a man from Germany who had been living in Peru for years and years. But he had developed an extremely environmentally friendly mine, a piece of equipment that filtered out the little tiny, the little tailing so it would, it would bring a lot more profit to the mining companies. But it was green because they use a lot of chemicals in mining. So, then they started off down that path and they're still on that path. So, the company didn't really disappear, it's reinvented itself and there's still a potential for that, but it had to be patented. I mean, that was a long, long journey so many of the original investors have died off. I mean, it's just been years.
Jason 40:56
How long are we talking?
Susan
Over 10 years.
Jason
So over 10 years, Yeah and you're still.
Susan 40:59
And so, I'm still on their list and I still get phone calls. And so, they're potentially, they do have something very valuable, but it was just a complete. So that does make me feel better when I see savvy people who have a lot of experience with investing and companies and businesses. And, when they come and mess up, I feel better. And I've met some sweet Ecuadorian people who have come from the States and had investments and built a home and then their home got washed away on the mountain side and then their business, all the employees stole the money. And I'm like, OK, I mean, it's not just me and it does, it helps because it's easy to feel that we are targets, I think as gringos. But Ecuadorians will definitely, if there's a wealthy Ecuadorian so it's they'll take advantage of that person.
Jason 41:52
Yeah, sure.
Susan 41:53
So it isn't just, you know, it is. It's easy to start seeing.
Jason 41:56
That’s an important point. I know a lot of expats think that we have this sort of target on our backs and I'm not saying that to a certain degree that we don't, but we're not the only ones with the targets.
Susan 42:06
No, and it's like it's global as far as yeah, people being targeted that they see as just, you know, having money and depending how deep their need. But yeah, so I have, I've seen that a lot.
Jason 42:22
So obviously this investment, you know, what would you do differently for this in a particular gold investment? Would you sit on the sidelines a little bit more until they're at a later stage?
Susan 42:32
Yeah cause there are a lot of companies globally, big companies where you can just invest, but like the metals have almost, they've done very little recently. They're actually doing better, but they're when you put money in the metals, it's just you're not trying to make money, you're just trying to preserve wealth. If you think times are unstable, you're hoping that it will just preserve the value of your funds in being held in metals. So, I would have gone, yeah, with something more established. Same with real estate if I'd gone with, you know, real estate, I understood which was in the States, but it had just tanked, right and but then it went through the roof after that so I was thinking I was being smart by investing in Ecuador and so.
Jason 43:14
You're diversifying, and doing the right thing.
Susan 43:16
And I was and I can see now though just the naiveness because there are so many companies with really good records and they may be boring and uninteresting or whatever, but they're safer.
Jason 43:27
But with, I mean, with that gold investment in particular, it sounds like it was very early stage so that was very, you know, it looked like a very speculative play and just from an outsider, high risk, high reward type scenario. So obviously you know, everyone's risk profile is a little bit different, but did you recognize how risky it was at the time or where did you put that?
Susan 43:46
Because I thought, OK, I know all the people. It was that feeling that if you invest in so many companies, you don't even know where the companies are. You don't really know anything about their product. They’re probably hiring, you know, people in some country and some horrible conditions to create the product. Here it was like you could go visit the mines, you knew the people, and they would come and give talks to you. You knew the product. You knew there was a lot of gold here in the land and that they were helping people. So, it's like in my mind it was safer because I could see it. But that didn't make it any safer any more than the real estate that I can see. Yes, but that's what I was thinking.
Jason 44:22
Yeah, I understand and so, like, now you've got a lot of learnings under your belt. I didn't know you before all this, but from what I can tell you, you seem to have just taken them all, just rolling with the punches and, and just moving forward and that level of positivity, I truly admire. But now you have all these learnings, how do you choose service providers and I guess how is this experience shaped how you choose different service providers?
Susan 44:48
Yeah, I don't know. That's a very good question. That's kind of why we talked about that. I'm just not moving very fast right now.
Jason 44:56
So, you've now decided to actually not purchase something because this sale as well is getting a little bit complicated. You've had a lot of complex issues in the past, so I personally think it's a good idea to give yourself a year of just breathing room or renting somewhere and slowing things down before we potentially start looking again.
Susan 45:12
Right, right so yeah, that's, that's definitely where I'm at but I'm also, I'm setting up a making sure I have a will for my kids. I have an account that I have my kids on the account so I'm setting up a will so they can have access.
Jason 45:25
With a different lawyer, right?
Susan 45:26
Yeah, in the States, in the States. And so right now it actually feels very good not to have any investment. I don't even have a car here in my name. If I did get a car, I might have someone else buy it so it's not in my name because it's complicated if you die and kids and all of that. So yeah, it's just wanting to make sure my kids are OK, and I had been stressing so much about that because if something happened to me and I had this large investment in a big piece of property, how that would be, you know, get taken care of? I was very worried about that and I do see a lot of Gringo's a lot don't have family, so they don't worry about it. But if anyone that has kids is stressed about how to make it, especially if they have more than one because somehow, they'd all have to show up, it's complicated. Complicated. So that's where, yeah, I feel much better that I'm not creating a big headache.
Jason 46:21
And do your kids get to visit here?
Susan 46:22
They all came when we first were here, but now they have families of their own and stuff, so it's much harder. But yeah, so I'm just kind of waiting.
Jason 46:31
And so just taking a slight step upwards and from a high level, obviously, these sorts of issues, scams, whatever you want to call them, just dishonesty I guess is the bottom line. Like what do you feel? Obviously, they've impacted you personally, and to a great deal, but what do you think the greater impact is on the community of these types of issues?
Susan 46:54
I don't know. That's a very good question because we're the ones that are kind of invading the culture here. They've lasted fine without us coming in and so it is, I think I know that the gringo maybe, Americans and Canadians, have had a negative effect in some ways because they bring the prices up because they overpay. But they don't know because they're being told to overpay by people. So, then the land gets outpriced for the locals so you've got those issues which are not good. And then the Gringo's, they do bring some businesses and they do a lot I think to help the economy too. But it goes both ways so I don't know, I think Ecuador's probably better off that the Gringo's came here cause they're now we can buy organic kale, of course.
Jason 47:45
But if there is this prevailing attitude, at least amongst some gringo's that I meet, that they just have this walking target on their back and like, that's for me, that's not a healthy way to live, like that's not an enjoyable way to know.
Susan 47:56
And there are so many wonderful Ecuadorians.
Jason 47:59
That's part of the conversation that we haven't even touched on, you know, like, obviously, yeah, you've had some bad apples and they do tend to spoil the whole bunch. But I don't want you at home thinking that absolutely everybody that you come across here, especially if they’re Ecuadorian, they're just out to get you. That's certainly not my experience.
Susan 48:16
The biggest thing too, and I've heard people mention it and I've heard people quote, people who had worked with me, and it's just that if they, you can make yourself a target. And I didn't mean to, but I thought I had an attorney and a realtor and I was like, OK, I want to purchase this. I want to find a farm. It was very foolish to do that. Maybe just buy one property and then have a completely different person and not ever give on. I mean, the fact my parents had passed away and I had money to invest was very naive to have people realize that.
I didn't say it directly, but then I was like, oh, you know, these people, they have all this money. It would always be better, I think, to drive a humble car and wherever you live is fine but to make sure nobody knows if you have this much in a CD or this much that you're looking to invest. You'd want to be extremely careful who you tell because then you do have a target. I mean, if people are saying, “OH, that person.” Because then someone else comes to you and they are a friend of the realtor or a friend of the attorney and you end up getting passed around. You think that these are people who are supposed to help you, but they all have been told to basically take advantage of you because you have money. So, we've heard that quote back that, we were told that was going on when we did the remodel. So, if you're doing something like that, which is right in town and remodeling an old building and we got a beat up, ugly old building for a really good price. But then once we started the work, it was kind of like, oh, these guys, aren't they? Yeah, we had a lot of people aware that there was all this money going into it that was very bad. You don't want to do that again.
Jason 49:59
So obviously having some unbiased second opinion is probably going to cut through some of these issues. The question, million-dollar question, is how do you know that that opinion is unbiased in a particular circumstance? Especially if your name's been passed around some sort of unofficial list?
Susan 50:17
Well, and then everyone says I have a friend or someone that's just say looking for a pasture for their horse or something. They'll say don't mention it's a gringo. Like don't mention a gringo just have an Ecuadorian say, would you rent your pasture or do you have a house to rent you know, that sort of thing. Don't tell them it's a gringo.
Jason 50:34
The negotiation culture, is really tough. Even if gringos know the negotiation culture, you're going to turn up and you're going to be at that immediate disadvantage because of those preconceptions that you're talking about.
Susan 50:44
So, someone else kind of made all the deal for you though because you know, or bought the car for you or I mean, I think if I did buy a house, I'd probably have an Ecuadorian friend buy it, then I'd buy it from them and pay the extra because I'd still be saving money to not be the gringo buying the house. So, you're just dealing with a completely different financial system if you're in that category.
Jason 51:07
Something you said before that resonated with me. You mentioned when we're inside that one of the things that you wanted to do was effectively set up these seminars for people - this is our experience or you know, these are the things to look out for.
Susan 51:20
Yeah, and it was, yeah, not in any kind of negative way. It's like, here's how the attorneys work here, how here's how real estate works here.
Jason 51:27
Here's the lay of the land here's how good or bad. Yeah, it's what you need.
Susan 51:30
The visa thing, here's how it works and so that they understand that and have people come from the visa department, have attorneys come, have realtors come and talk. But ones that are willing to explain how it really does or it doesn't work. So that was the idea. Yeah, just education, that’s all.
Jason 51:45
I like that. What role do you think the community has I guess in trying to steer people towards the results that you know aren't based on dishonesty or overpaying or something like that?
Susan 52:16
Probably what we were just saying was education. If someone would have to kind of sponsor that and know there's one attorney here that has tried to do that. Like, do talks on getting visas and stuff, which is very good so just being able to expand that.
Jason 52:31
So, do you think more of those workshop-type approaches?
Susan 52:33
Yes, and I don't know, I've always thought it was a small percentage that really did come with, you know. Most people want to rent and most people don't even want a car, right so they're really going to be fine.
Jason 52:47
The people searching for land, in my experience, they're the ones that really need a lot of assistance.
Susan 52:52
Right and just to let people know, even if they're not thinking of buying a home, I mean, just being more educated about the legal system. If somebody broke into their house, if there were issues, like just understanding all of that stuff and what's legal and what's not legal. Which can be very confusing. Like I was saying, I was giving power to someone and so people tell me that's legal, that's not. And then just, and then people like this road. I've always been able to use this road, but someone said that one of the people on the road could actually block the road, but then that would be illegal. But it could take two years before it went. You couldn't get to the property and then. So, there it's just to be savvier to understand how things work and not.
Jason 53:34
I think when it comes to land purchases, it is very important to slow down and I think a really good approach for a lot of people is kind of something that you were almost doing. I think, basically buying a condo or something like that in Cuenca, something that is effectively less risky, if I'm being honest, just in terms of all the different things that can potentially go wrong. I'm not saying that those deals can't end up poorly as well, but you've got a much smaller section of potential issues there.
So that is definitely one of my suggestions. Whilst you're learning the culture, you're learning the rules around what you can and cannot do for the land. But if you're hell bent on just owning land and not a condo, then come here, rent for a while, and use that time that you're renting - the year contract generally that's what they are. Use that time to do some scouting around for the land.
Jason 54:21
Time to figure out the pricing of the areas that you're interested in because the price per square meter, differs a lot. And this is really hard for me as an agent, to set those expectations with people around.
OK, this is why the land is going to cost $150 per square meter here. And here's why it costs $6 per square meter here. We're not talking huge variances in geography, you know, like less than an hour away from each other, but very, very significant differences in value. And it would be very easy for me, if I was that way inclined, to oversell something that has, you know, $6 per square meter at $12 per square meter. That would be quite easy but obviously, when it comes to the agents and the ethics side of things, this is probably one of the main messages from the video is that there is no code of ethics here.
It really is buyer beware when it comes to your purchases and something that you said before about the proactive nature that just does not really exist in Ecuador. I think that is a very, very good point to sort of maybe leave this conversation with because I myself, there's cars - mechanics. That's probably the best example that I have. I know nothing, maybe I shouldn't be saying this on camera, but I know nothing about cars, making myself a target, but I know nothing about cars so I'm always at the behest of the mechanic to treat me in the right way. But I have learned that I cannot do that. Yeah, I now have to be a little bit of a mechanic. To go in there and say this is what I want fixed. But if that thing doesn't work, then you need to look at this other thing, just go check out that.
Susan 55:59
That’s good. See, ok.
Jason 56:01
Well, I mean look, I'm not good at it. I'm terrible at it and it takes more time, but I've just learnt that that is the cost of living here.
Susan 56:07
That's true. That's a good point because I think in the States we do have well… and in the States, you can turn in and the attorney could lose his license, the real estate agent could lose their license, the car dealership, you could sue people. There's kind of a that keeps people more in line, even if individually they wouldn't mind cheating you. They don't want to lose their job, they don't want to lose their license. So, you have more of those just in place that keep people more honest. Here, they know how hard it is for someone to go after them and there are actually a lot of laws protecting them.
Jason 56:38
Especially for someone who doesn’t know the system versus someone that is using the system to hide their dishonesty. It's a really tough place for you to be in.
Susan 56:47
Right and then people will say, oh, we're going to sue this person. Well, I've heard that almost never do gringos come out on top, but I don't know how that works.
Jason 56:56
It can be a bit of a coin toss sometimes when you go down to the courts.
Susan 56:57
But it's just and Americans, I think, can be a little bit sue happy because the States like to sue him, sue him, sue him. We tried a couple times and we realized that we were just then putting more money to someone that had no interest in bringing us our money back, just taking money to have the lawsuit go nowhere. So, then it was like, I'm not going to do that anymore. I give up.
Jason 57:23
You’re just done with that. Yeah, I understand. It’s beaten you finally. But I just want to finish this, on your future plans here. You're going to rent a place for a little bit of a time, take some time out, but any other plans for Cuenca or Ecuador, you're going to stay in the area I’m assuming?
Susan 57:37
That's a good question. Yeah, I don't know. I'd love to be close to my kids in the States, but I do think it is a bad time to move back to the States. There's just a lot going on that isn't good. And so, I don't want it. And, just the price of real estate is so insane or rentals and everything so I'm just like, OK, I'm going to visit, I'll visit family and just stay here. And I do love the country and I have lots of friends and I'm very happy here so I think it's just finding the right place for me and then being able to travel, which hopefully even if planes are falling out of the sky right now, that's OK. There are a few issues with that, but I'm Careful with Boeing.
Susan 58:17
Right, right, exactly. So, then I would just travel more so I would travel more to see family, but keep my base here because I really love it. I like the country. I do like the country.
Jason 58:27
I mean, I love it out here. You're not moving too far from the country, right?
Susan 58:30
No, my rental is very close so it's awesome.
Jason 58:33
Yeah, that's great, well, I'm really glad that you're staying here because it is gorgeous. I love coming out here and thank you very much for your time.
Susan 58:41
Yeah, I'm glad we could talk
Jason
Thanks, Susan.
Jason 58:43
Awesome. A big thank you to Susan for sharing her story with us today. I did say at the start of the video that this was not going to be a feel-good story. I do wish Susan's outcome was different, but Susan remains so upbeat and positive about her journey. I truly admire Susan for this resilience and for choosing to see the good in every scenario. The other clear message that I'd like you to walk away with is just to be very careful when it comes to trusting anyone. When large sums of money are involved, the temptation for a quick buck can be too much and you as the buyer will ultimately lose out. The main driver for us at YapaTree Properties is to provide you with a safe, fair, and easy buying process and our hope is that over time other agents will also see how we are being successful by introducing fair and ethical processes and hopefully, then they will follow suit. Now will it work? I really do not know changing anyone's behavior is always tough, but we are certainly trying.
If you are interested in our buyers agent service, I do suggest checking out this video. Thanks a million for watching and have a great day.